I haven't posted twice in a day for awhile but after reading a new blog friend's post about our religion I wanted to write my thoughts on one specific topic down as quickly as possible.Ok... so I wasn't exactly the girl you'd expect would take the "LDS Marriage and Family" class but I was looking for an easy 'A' and thought 'what the heck?.' Yea, I was asking for it.
One of the lesson's was on "A Woman's Role." If you know me you'd be able to picture the expression on my face when I first heard this was the topic. If you don't know me just picture a me with an attitude saying somethin like "... Are you seriously about to start tellin' me about MY role?... I know you playin'... Stop playin'"
Normally I'm pretty much submissive and quiet in class until until someone says something stupid... Which is what occurred in this case.
So I was doing other homework during this class period and occasionally hearing things that I roll my eyes at, or chuckle about under my breath. But nothing really made me interested enough to make an argumentative comment. After all, the professor was reporting things church leaders have told us and I'm not about to argue with that. So we were closing the class period talking about women working... We all know everyone has different circumstances where a woman may have to, or choose to work. The professor said a woman shouldn't work just so they could have nicer things like cars, houses, etc... Ok, so I'm cool with him saying that, I mean... whateva... But tell me this one girl did not have the nerve to raise her hand and ask:
"So what should we tell a woman if she says she wants to work, because that's not what she should be doing. I mean, what's the best way to tell her she shouldn't be going that?"
I almost jumped up out my chair. But the Good Lord was holding me back. Good thing too cause I may have gotten kicked out of BYU! I mean... Who is she to tell someone what they should or shouldn't be doing? I'm not gonna lie, I was offended (and this was before the "don't be offended" talk s odon't give me crap for that either).
It made me even more upset when the professor and another girl responded after. I thought they were gonna have my back but no (course not)… They were saying something to the effect of "you should tell her to pray about it."
I'm sorry but unless you don't need to tell anyone what they should be praying about. ESPECIALLY when they didn't ask for your effin opinion. Man I tell ya, good thing the bell rang cause I was about to say somethin'. Oh but don't worry, you'd better believe that's the first thing I brought up Monday morning before we even start the next class discussion.
Basically I just told them some people need to learn to mind their own dang business. I was really doing that girl a favor. I didn't want that poor soul to go around thinkin' she can tell people what they should and shouldn't be doing and to pray about "their sins."
All I can say is she's lucky she's lucky she lives in Utah, cause if you try sayin' somethin' like that where I come from you may get hit... Mormon or not we don't play that down south!
Why act "holier than thou?" I'm sorry but you are not my guardian angel, you are not my prophet and you sure as hell aint my momma... And if you were still I wouldn't let you tell me what I should and shouldn't be doing. I am a grown 'A' woman.
That being said... Why is is that that is so prominent in LDS culture? Why do we feel the need to tell people how THEY should live their lives? I mean, it's one thing to offer a suggestion when asked (which since this blog, I personally ask for a lot) but it's a totally different thing to feel the need to tell someone what they're doing is wrong when they never asked your opinion!
Another conflict... in LDS culture many times we're told "Multiply and replenish the Earth" No questions asked, just "we're commanded to do it so do it!" Well, we're also (in instances like this story) told that women should be at home with the children.
I'd LOVE to be home with my kids, especially when their young. But I have no idea how that could be feasible in the situation I'm in right now. I'm the only one currently working full-time. I'm putting my husband through school and progressing in my career. I wouldn't say I'm "putting my career before children" but I am, in my opinion, being "smart" about it. Instead of quitting my job and only having breast milk to feed my kids while having an empty stomach myself so that I can be at home I'm waiting until we are financially able for me (or my husband) to be at home with our kids (although in the lesson previously stated we were told a woman is better at home than the man).
But then on the other hand we could have kids right now, and I could keep working, but then no one would be at home.
I have a feeling I'll be the woman who LIKES to work and would still need at least a part-time job to feel whole and complete, but I'll really cross that bridge when I get there.
The point of this post is the question "Which one do you choose?" For those who believe you should have kids right away... Is it better to just do it even if you have to put your kids in daycare? Or wait until you're in a situation that permits a parent to be at home?
19 remarks:
Love this post....
For me personally.. I chose to do both. I like interacting with people.. I like working... I like bringing in my own bacon so to speak. But I LOVE being a mom. So I went to beauty school... and I got liscensed.. I stayed home till my kids went to school... then I worked during their school hours. I dropped them off, went to work, got off work, and picked them up. No babysitters.. no daycare. Best of both worlds. As they got older and we went into switching to homeschool... we just adjusted again. I know do freelance photography and have my own book keeping business.
These "jobs" allow me to do things I enjoy... but that also allow me to make my own schedule so I can work around the kids.... I realize that not everyjob in the world allows that sort of freedom... but thats where I used my choice... I choose ones that would. SUre I could go and do some grand job andhave a huge office and make some good money... but that wasnt important to me.
Anyways... I say its all about priorities. Set them.. and then work your plan to match them. It makes sense... and it just seemed like the right thing to do for me.
So there you go... my thought provoking..(haha) response... to your thought provoking post.. =)
Amen sister! We had been married for 4 years before we had our daughter and we totally got "looks" and questions about it. We waited until my husband was done with grad school before getting preggo. We felt it would be too hard to do both and unfair to many people to just plan on WIC to get us through. The timing of children can be planned! You are not required to stop having kids the second you are married.
I have always worked. She is in daycare. I enjoy working and the personal fulfillment I get from it. This is a question I am currently evaluating for my situation. I would love to stay home but I think I would go crazy being with little kids all day. Right now we are thinking I will work for another few years until we are to a place where we can be financially stable on one income. IMO, I don't think it's wrong to want to provide a nice lifestyle for your family. That costs money. I would like to find a way to work part time.
All I can say is, you have to do what the Lord inspires YOU to do in this life. I have taken a very unconventional approach to life, but I have been guided. Lots of people think I'm stupid. Lots of people judge me. Yes, I'm young, married and have a baby. And graduating college. But you know, I had to submit my will to God's at some point because He knows better than I did.
I am glad you said something in your class. That is the mentality of many "Utah Mormons" (not ALL, just many) and I am so glad I got out of that place! I was so tired of having to justify why I had a C-section/didn't breastfeed/was still in school/got married at 18. It's no one's damn business what I do and do not. Same goes for you! You just have to do what you have been inspired to do by the Lord and try to block out all the haters.
Oooo i feel special, I got linked! ♥ ☺
I plan to write about this at some more length, but here are my thoughts in brief:
1--the prophets have told us that we should not delay children for the sake of money, school, or jobs. I figure I should take that at face value.
2--if a couple has children, a parent (ideally mom) should be home with them. Our choice was for dad to work while he was in school--yes it's hard, but we felt it was the better choice. (We tried having me substitute teaching while DH stayed home with the kiddo, but he got cabin fever and I spent all day thinking about home...so after two weeks we gave it up and I stayed home and he worked through school.) If mom must work, try staggering schedules so one parent is always home with the kids, or working from home.
It's absolutely snarky to say, but I have to agree with Dr Laura when she said "don't have kids if you don't plan to raise them yourself." I have had several work-from-home jobs since we've been married--they are out there if you really look. I am now self-employed at home (I sew and sell things online).
I firmly believe (as stated in the Proclamation to the World) that a woman's calling on this earth is to be a keeper of the home an nurturer of children. This was something I always wanted, and it has been very fulfilling for me--far moreso than my working was, even though I liked teaching. I can imagine that it would be a harder paradigm shift for some women, but that does not make it any less of an eternal principle.
Incidentally, my husband is a school teacher. We have a tight budget and it can be frustrating. If I went to work I could double our income--actually, because I finished school before DH did--if I had been working all along I would be making more than he does (because teacher's salary is based on years of experience). But my marriage came with a child already in the deal (DH's from his first marriage), so I have always stayed home. I've worked from home on and off, and that's been nice, but DH is our primary breadwinner, and always has been. He took a part-time job on top of full-time teaching for a while because it was what we needed at the time. Had we been the normal childless newlyweds, sure, I would have worked, but only until the first child came...and i would not have taken any measures to delay the birth of that first child. That's just how I feel about it.
haha, that was brief.
oh gee, i'm not done (but it means you get a lot of comments, so you feel special too, right?!)
I just wanted to respond to Jenna's comment...
for many years I did judge people who seemed to be putting off children, or otherwise making choices that (imo) didn't align with my perception of what was right. Then I got married and to all appearances was putting off children myself (actually I was having repeated miscarriages, but very few people knew about them--I just looked always not pregnant...) I'd been married 3 years before I had a baby.
I also have a good friend who became pregnant in her teens, but felt prompted to keep the baby rather than putting it up for adoption. She was judged a lot for that choice, but she knew it was what she was supposed to do.
Those experiences (among others) have taught me to not judge others in their situations. I have to do what I believe is right *for me*, and I will certainly reach out to others in an effort to help them understand all their options...but I have learned to not judge others who are doing things I wouldn't do myself... you never know all the details of someone elses situation, and you never know if they've been prompted to do something specific.
Case in point--I know of a woman who had several homebirths, then felt that she should have her next child by planned c-section. So she did--there were unforseen complications and the baby would not have survived any way *except* the c/s. She later had another child at home without complication... I think it all goes to prove that we need to be open to the spirit's guidance all the time, and be willing to change plans at any time if we feel prompted to do so.
how's that for writing a whole other post on your post. twice.
LOL!
Well I wanted kids right away after we got married. Our son is in daycare. I would love to stay home with him, really I would but we can't afford it right now. I'm the bread winner in our family. When I went to college & dental school. I never knew that my views would change & I would want to be a stay at home mom. After all that schooling I have massive student loans I'm currently paying. My husband can't afford to pay for my student loans, he works and goes to college. I'm thinking later on down the line when we have more kids & hubby is out of school & has a good job I'll work partime. Maybe 2 days a week. But for now I can't. I have to do 40 hours. It's hard I miss my baby so much when I'm working. But this is the best we can do for now.
So in your situation maybe you should wait till your husband gets out of school & has a good job. Your still young. I'm older and have to have kids now-LOL
I agree everyone has to make their own choices, no one can do it for you. We waited to have kids because hubby had major medical issues and hospital stays. We were paying for that for a while. Then we had kids when we had a little starter home and thought we could afford it. I worked the first three years of our firstborn's life and MIL took care of her. When I had number two, I couldn't feel good about having MIL take care of my kids. I stayed home from then on. It hurt financially, but the overworked feeling and guilt was gone. That's just me. Every family has to do what they feel they must.
Not every Utah mormon feels like they have to tell people how to be. I went to a Utah college other than BYU. Maybe you meet a greater number of people who like to do that because you are at the "Lord's University".
I came across your blog today from MormonMommys...way to speak your mind! Your life is between you, your husband and the Lord, so pay no mind to what other people say (easier said than done when people don't think before opening their mouths). I just recently became a SAHM after working for 6 years following my graduation from BYU after having triplets last June. I know the satisfaction that comes from having a career but also the satisfaction that comes from being home with my children. I feel that if it's your prerogative to do both, you can do it...just look at Jane Clayson Johnson. Good luck! P.S.- I recognize you from BYU Weekly.
Wow, Jennifer, this post really got me thinking. I am a stay at home mom, but not by choice. If I could I would work part time. I understand that whole need to get out of the house. But with today's economy it is very hard to even find a part time job so for now I am at home with my children. I disagree with your professor. I believe that women should have a choice whether or not to stay home with their children. Some women prefer to work. They have a need to get out of the house like you mentioned before. While others like to be home with their children. Sure when your kids are young it is a good idea to stay home with them, but for some moms it just isn't feasible.
I don't think that a mom should work to help pay for an expensive lifestyle. If her family depends on her job to put groceries on the table, like mine did before we moved out here, then yes, she should work. But if her family depends on her job in order to have an expensive house, car, etc. then maybe she and her husband should take a closer look at their budget.
Very interesting post, Jennifer.
At church yesterday I was reminded of the scripture somewhere that mentions that the "wants and needs" of the members should be met. I believe this was in the D&C and had to do with the law of consecration.
If when we're sharing all our possessions with everyone it is ok to have things we want, I'm sure it's ok to have things we want now. That being said, if you want kids right away, go for it. If your husband wants to stay at home and you're cool with that, fine.
The Utah culture is pretty heavy. We left when we could... thank goodness. Since leaving we have seen it all... whithin the LDS church even.
LOVE YOUR BLOG! Came across it on Mormon Mommy or something like that. Love how you speak your mind on so many different topics.
I also intensely disliked similar comments and holier than though comments while I was at school. My husband & I waited 7 years to finish school and start our family. I wanted my children to have 2 parents and not a father consumed with school and a mother busy working. Not that there is anything wrong with that, if it is what you want, but I didn't. I wanted to be a SHM and I was willing to wait to have that happen and I am very glad I did.
I wish you luck with the many comments and friendly suggestions you'll get from concerned people in your ward about when you're having kids. My suggestion, be creative - have fun with it!
I just discovered your blog and I'm totally lovin you!!! I think if I took this class with you at the Y we'd be rolling our eyes together. I grew up in Utah but was raised so differently,...but I definitely did not appreciate the 'unique' cultural views surrounding the 'role' of women.
I finished at the Y just happy to be rid of the crazy pre-meds (mostly men, although some of the women were psycho) and happily made my way to the U only be happy to finish and be rid of the same crazy attitudes (from both male peers and their the wives - i.e. 'why do you think it's ok for you to 'take' a coveted med school seat 'from a man who will be supporting a family'; how are you going to be a Mother if you're going to be a doctor?, don't you want to have kids? etc.)
I left utah because, as you said, 'Mormon or not' we don't play that down here in NYC!!! Having said that, I have many great friends who did things completely opposite than me (married young, had children early, did not pursue education, etc..) and are genuinely supportive of me and I of them.
Great post! :)
I live in Utah, I have two little kids, and SHOCKER, I work.
I always wanted a career, and I got one. I finished school first and then helped my husband get through. While I was working and he was in school we had our first baby (we'd already been married 6 years, so no rush.) It was the right time for us. You'll have a baby when it's the right time for both of you, and that's that.
Because I got my education, because I worked for years in my career, I now have the flexibility in my work/home life. I recently stepped down to part time work, and I STILL make more than my husband. All of that is only possible because I prepared myself. I never expected to depend on anyone else for my successes or failures.
If that girl had had the nerve to say something like that to me at BYU, OH NO, she'd have been walking funny for a week. I wish I could have been in there to back you up.
I found your blog through Mormon Mommies and am playing catch up and just getting to this post.
I TOTALLY agree with Azucar's comment. I grew up in a single parent family with 4 other siblings. I watched my mother struggle, struggle, struggle to try to go to school, work, and raise 5 kids single handed. Why did she struggle so? Because she went to BYU young and joined the 'in' crowd by getting married young,having kids right away, not taking her education seriously, and never building professional work skills. And 15 years later, me and my siblings are living the consequences of those choices.
I'm now 26 and have been married for 2 years (no kids and not pregnant). I got married when I was ready to take on ALL the responsiblities of marriage- including the financial part of it (not just the fun part when you get married and are LDS, if you know what I mean). I really struggle and its hard for me not to judge (and I'm a returned missionary!) when I see married people financially supported by their parents- or families on WIC. I have worked very hard to build my skills and be responsible and self reliant. And what do I get in reward? I get to pay high taxes for those who chose to 'follow the prophet' stay home, and make babies. I feel that The church's council is a catch 22... you know... "Don't postpone getting married or having kids" and then at the same time "BE SELF RELIANT, build your food storage, financial reserve, etc."
Back to my mom... I made a choice a long time ago that I would be educated and have professional work experience and skills before I had children. And I will be a better mom for it.
I would have backed you up in that class 100%. I better stop talking now, or I can go on forever.
By the way, can we be best friends?
I agree everyone has to make their own choices, no one can do it for you. We waited to have kids because hubby had major medical issues and hospital stays. We were paying for that for a while. Then we had kids when we had a little starter home and thought we could afford it. I worked the first three years of our firstborn's life and MIL took care of her. When I had number two, I couldn't feel good about having MIL take care of my kids. I stayed home from then on. It hurt financially, but the overworked feeling and guilt was gone. That's just me. Every family has to do what they feel they must.
Not every Utah mormon feels like they have to tell people how to be. I went to a Utah college other than BYU. Maybe you meet a greater number of people who like to do that because you are at the "Lord's University".
oh gee, i'm not done (but it means you get a lot of comments, so you feel special too, right?!)
I just wanted to respond to Jenna's comment...
for many years I did judge people who seemed to be putting off children, or otherwise making choices that (imo) didn't align with my perception of what was right. Then I got married and to all appearances was putting off children myself (actually I was having repeated miscarriages, but very few people knew about them--I just looked always not pregnant...) I'd been married 3 years before I had a baby.
I also have a good friend who became pregnant in her teens, but felt prompted to keep the baby rather than putting it up for adoption. She was judged a lot for that choice, but she knew it was what she was supposed to do.
Those experiences (among others) have taught me to not judge others in their situations. I have to do what I believe is right *for me*, and I will certainly reach out to others in an effort to help them understand all their options...but I have learned to not judge others who are doing things I wouldn't do myself... you never know all the details of someone elses situation, and you never know if they've been prompted to do something specific.
Case in point--I know of a woman who had several homebirths, then felt that she should have her next child by planned c-section. So she did--there were unforseen complications and the baby would not have survived any way *except* the c/s. She later had another child at home without complication... I think it all goes to prove that we need to be open to the spirit's guidance all the time, and be willing to change plans at any time if we feel prompted to do so.
how's that for writing a whole other post on your post. twice.
LOL!
Love this post....
For me personally.. I chose to do both. I like interacting with people.. I like working... I like bringing in my own bacon so to speak. But I LOVE being a mom. So I went to beauty school... and I got liscensed.. I stayed home till my kids went to school... then I worked during their school hours. I dropped them off, went to work, got off work, and picked them up. No babysitters.. no daycare. Best of both worlds. As they got older and we went into switching to homeschool... we just adjusted again. I know do freelance photography and have my own book keeping business.
These "jobs" allow me to do things I enjoy... but that also allow me to make my own schedule so I can work around the kids.... I realize that not everyjob in the world allows that sort of freedom... but thats where I used my choice... I choose ones that would. SUre I could go and do some grand job andhave a huge office and make some good money... but that wasnt important to me.
Anyways... I say its all about priorities. Set them.. and then work your plan to match them. It makes sense... and it just seemed like the right thing to do for me.
So there you go... my thought provoking..(haha) response... to your thought provoking post.. =)
Oooo i feel special, I got linked! ♥ ☺
I plan to write about this at some more length, but here are my thoughts in brief:
1--the prophets have told us that we should not delay children for the sake of money, school, or jobs. I figure I should take that at face value.
2--if a couple has children, a parent (ideally mom) should be home with them. Our choice was for dad to work while he was in school--yes it's hard, but we felt it was the better choice. (We tried having me substitute teaching while DH stayed home with the kiddo, but he got cabin fever and I spent all day thinking about home...so after two weeks we gave it up and I stayed home and he worked through school.) If mom must work, try staggering schedules so one parent is always home with the kids, or working from home.
It's absolutely snarky to say, but I have to agree with Dr Laura when she said "don't have kids if you don't plan to raise them yourself." I have had several work-from-home jobs since we've been married--they are out there if you really look. I am now self-employed at home (I sew and sell things online).
I firmly believe (as stated in the Proclamation to the World) that a woman's calling on this earth is to be a keeper of the home an nurturer of children. This was something I always wanted, and it has been very fulfilling for me--far moreso than my working was, even though I liked teaching. I can imagine that it would be a harder paradigm shift for some women, but that does not make it any less of an eternal principle.
Incidentally, my husband is a school teacher. We have a tight budget and it can be frustrating. If I went to work I could double our income--actually, because I finished school before DH did--if I had been working all along I would be making more than he does (because teacher's salary is based on years of experience). But my marriage came with a child already in the deal (DH's from his first marriage), so I have always stayed home. I've worked from home on and off, and that's been nice, but DH is our primary breadwinner, and always has been. He took a part-time job on top of full-time teaching for a while because it was what we needed at the time. Had we been the normal childless newlyweds, sure, I would have worked, but only until the first child came...and i would not have taken any measures to delay the birth of that first child. That's just how I feel about it.
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